• Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

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Kuba35910
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 68606Post Kuba35910
June 6, 2020 10:39:36

Here is my tentative vote, let me now what should I change in order to qualify as a judge.
Zank wrote:
May 10, 2020 17:38:28
Please quote this post and vote for any of these two entries in order to apply as a judge. Read all of the above rules prior to submitting your tentative vote. If any of the two entries are yours, replace it while voting with this entry: link

#1
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#2
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I think the first entry is better than the second because it gives you more capabilities of leading a more effective game and lets you plan the game better in order to get the most profitable results. The first character lets you to gain destructible defense in various amounts depending on how you want to play the game. For example, you can choose if you want to accumulate a lot of destructible defense and then use the third or the last skill to deal a destructing amount of damage or kill an enemy. You can also plan your game on dealing damage earlier, which would probably work nice if Asuma has good teammates, and then Asuma becomes a good character to deal a final damage by using his last skill. There is also a possibility to just use Asuma as a good defensive character and focus your game on just gaining destructible defense while the teammates can play the role of the offensive characters. So, the first entry gives you the right to decide how you want to play while the second actually tolds you how to play if you want to get the most effective result. That is what makes it worse than the first one in my opinion. Skills themselves are not bad, they makes the character simple but able to be a good damage support because of their costs that requires only random chakras and the damage that is piercing. But the flow between them basically tells you the order in which you should use them. It makes the whole character rather predictable while you playing against them. To be clear, you have to play using one skill and then your enemy already knows what will you try to do because that one skill improves directly the other one. Also, I don't find the last skill interesting because I'm not a fan of making invulnerability with another simple effect. It feels like an effect added to the last skill is added just to be there. But that is a subjective feeling which is probably not making the character much worse. As an additional note I can say that there should be mentioned if the last skill stacks or not.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 68878Post Zank
June 7, 2020 8:52:18

Kuba35910 wrote:
June 6, 2020 10:39:36
Here is my tentative vote, let me now what should I change in order to qualify as a judge.
Zank wrote:
May 10, 2020 17:38:28
Please quote this post and vote for any of these two entries in order to apply as a judge. Read all of the above rules prior to submitting your tentative vote. If any of the two entries are yours, replace it while voting with this entry: link

#1
Image

#2
Image
I think the first entry is better than the second because it gives you more capabilities of leading a more effective game and lets you plan the game better in order to get the most profitable results. The first character lets you to gain destructible defense in various amounts depending on how you want to play the game. For example, you can choose if you want to accumulate a lot of destructible defense and then use the third or the last skill to deal a destructing amount of damage or kill an enemy. You can also plan your game on dealing damage earlier, which would probably work nice if Asuma has good teammates, and then Asuma becomes a good character to deal a final damage by using his last skill. There is also a possibility to just use Asuma as a good defensive character and focus your game on just gaining destructible defense while the teammates can play the role of the offensive characters. So, the first entry gives you the right to decide how you want to play while the second actually tolds you how to play if you want to get the most effective result. That is what makes it worse than the first one in my opinion. Skills themselves are not bad, they makes the character simple but able to be a good damage support because of their costs that requires only random chakras and the damage that is piercing. But the flow between them basically tells you the order in which you should use them. It makes the whole character rather predictable while you playing against them. To be clear, you have to play using one skill and then your enemy already knows what will you try to do because that one skill improves directly the other one.

As an additional note: Also, I don't find the last skill interesting because I'm not a fan of making invulnerability with another simple effect. It feels like an effect added to the last skill is added just to be there. But that is a subjective feeling which is probably not making the character much worse. I can say that there should be mentioned if the last skill stacks or not.
The vote is mostly fine, but the part that should've been an additional note has been bolded. That part doesn't really play into your reason and I think that's also why you felt compelled to say it's just something subjective.

Also, in the future try to say a little more about an entry's skills because in regards to Mifune, because the damage type and skill costs is something anyone can determine really fast. It's absolutely fine given what you said in your vote. My only concern is that in future votes it might not be enough information whether you have read the entry or not.

Since these are only minor concerns and the vote is good, you have passed the trial and are now a judge.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 69195Post Zank
June 8, 2020 16:28:07

Two entries have been submitted so far for NBTCM #4.

Now that there are 3 judges, there will sometimes be groups in which there would be enough votes to always determine which entry wins, only as long as the judges are not participating in those groups. As a result, unless I modify the rules slightly, the judges are at a disadvantage because of the fact that, if they are participants they can only earn half or a third of the points that a participant that is not a judge would because there would be a single vote in any groups they might participate in.

As a result, I will need to implement some changes until there are enough judges for the contest to be run normally, so that the judges won't be at a disadvantage when they participate, because they will end up also being voters. So from now on, the following temporary rule will be added to each theme until there are at least five judges:

Temporary Rule:

• The winner of any group will grant them points equal to the amount two votes would grant them normally. This applies to both entries in case of a tie, even though only one of them advances. Anyone that loses in a group still receives points normally in case their entry received any vote.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 69761Post MakeMeSad
June 10, 2020 15:05:58

Hey Zank, could you please consider editing these 2 rules?
Zank wrote:
May 10, 2020 17:37:55
• Each entry can only contain a total of 150 words for the character’s skill descriptions.

• The user must have at least three posts distanced by a period of 7 day between each other.
I've talked to neji and Kuba and we'd like to suggest increasing a total amount of words from 150 to 175 and decreasing the amount of posts from 3 to 2.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 69778Post Zank
June 10, 2020 16:30:09

I don't mind changing rules according to what problems they cause, but first I need to understand what problems they cause and why.

For this rule:

• The user must have at least three posts distanced by a period of 7 days between each other.

I actually can understand how it might be too severe since I had to reject a potential participant for not having enough posts. Given the risks of someone mass participating on multiple accounts are rather low, I think I can change that rule to this:

• The user must have at least five posts distanced by a period of 2 days between each other.

That way I'm still practically asking for one week like your change suggests, but the potential participant cannot just make one post on a random topic and then the very next week they can just post an entry. I'll implement this right now without any fuss.

For this other rule however:

• Each entry can only contain a total of 150 words for the character’s skill descriptions.

I'm afraid it will have to stay. Or rather some equivalent form of limiting the length of the character needs to exist. This is so that character judges upon voting won't take issue with the length of the character and end up considering it too much of a time investment.

While I am confident in Kuba and Neji still voting as judges, because they have submitted votes participated in similar contests I have had held in the past, they are already used to this type of contest, so the two of them fulfilling this role even with the characters being far longer than 175 words would not surprise me.

But my main concern is people burning out of reading longer characters since that has happened before, and the prior rule we had of limiting each character to up to 32 skill lines allowed for still very lengthy entries and has limited people to using only standard templates so they would be accurately judged in length.

The best compromise I can think of, is raising the word limit to be higher but still rewarding the participant with a multiplier if their entry is at 150 words or below. I did notice how all of the entries have abbreviated DD so that it would count as a single word rather than two, so I can see that for the current theme people are indeed struggling with the length of the character.

However, I still believe there is a much better solution as this doesn't completely solve the potential problem and only give the participants an incentive not to cause a problem for the judges. If an entry is hard to read due to being lengthy, someone might also end up being harsh due to that reason. I need further insight of what exactly is the problem and how it impacts the participants.

For now I'd like to hear everyone out without necessarily being provided a solution, but you can suggest in what way the rule could be changed and I'll think of something. For now let me make the participation rule change, since I've seen its potential impact already.

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The following participation rule has been changed from:

• The user must have at least three posts distanced by a period of 7 days between each other.

to

• The user must have at least five posts distanced by a period of 2 days between each other.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 69862Post Kuba35910
June 10, 2020 23:53:25

About the skills description length I can say that the suggestion about increasing it was integrally from participant perspective so now I understand why you want to stay this rule as it is. It's fine for me. About the participation rule, decreasing the time period may encourage more people, mostly those who are coming back to character making, to join the contest so it's good to hear the rule has been changed. By the way, my entry for the current theme will be ready today, making it took me a little longer than usual because of some college stuff.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 70038Post Zank
June 11, 2020 15:51:00

Kuba35910 wrote:
June 10, 2020 23:53:25
About the skills description length I can say that the suggestion about increasing it was integrally from participant perspective so now I understand why you want to stay this rule as it is. It's fine for me. About the participation rule, decreasing the time period may encourage more people, mostly those who are coming back to character making, to join the contest so it's good to hear the rule has been changed. By the way, my entry for the current theme will be ready today, making it took me a little longer than usual because of some college stuff.
Still, if the word limit does create difficulty for the participants I believe it is worth looking into. I did discuss some possible changes on discord alongside Neji and someone else. Here is what I'm fairly confident about bringing in after this theme:

• Skill Names will count as a single word. When posting your entry in text format, please put any skill names you mention in the skill descriptions between quotation marks. For example: This skill deals 15 more damage during "Shadow Clones". This is not mandatory, but you run the risk of me miscounting the words if you don't respect it since I can make mistakes. (This is to not force creators to abbreviate their skill names to count as a single word, or to use skill names that only have one word)

• Any mechanic's name will count as a single word. Effects such as damage reduction and destructible defense are different mechanics that require an external definition to be understood. Any effects described through terms that aren't self-defining and as a result require an external definition is considered a mechanic. When posting your entry in text format, please put the name of mechanics you mention in the skill descriptions between quotation marks, as long as the mechanic's name is longer than one word. For example: For 3 turns, Naruto has 99 "Damage Reduction". This is not mandatory, but you run the risk of me miscounting the words if you don't respect it since I can make mistakes. (This is to not force creators to use abbreviations such as DR/DD for any effects in order to save space)

• Any text within skill descriptions that does not describe how a skill works but instead describes what happens in the picture or anything else unrelated to the skill's effect is considered filler text. Sentences that contain only filler text will not be counted for the word limit as long as you do not post them while posting your entry in text format and the filler text is actually highlighted in the template by changing the font's color or any other non-subtle visual queue. For example: Click (This is in order to allow character creators more space to describe what their skills do without having any length added by the text that exists to give the character further flavor. This is typically the text that in contests of the sort is often disregarded, so the reason I want it highlighted is to signify that said text is ok to skip for the judges that hold no value on it.)

I'm also considering allowing an additional 30 words to describe any additional information about the skills, such as perhaps a new mechanic they introduce or anything else of the sort the same way I do it for my characters. For example: Click.

This is in order to allow any characters that might introduce new mechanics some room to be created or would benefit from any additional notes, as this type of contests often gave birth to plenty of innovative effects and new terms before. But I'm trying to figure out whether there is a better way to go about it. So I'll still think on it.

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Three entries have been submitted so far for NBTCM #4.

Since the fourth will most likely be Kuba's and it will also be most likely done until tomorrow, anyone still wanting to participate can announce me to wait for their entry. One of the other participants also wants to submit a different entry so if they also tell me to wait, I will.

If anyone else plans to also participate, please let me know how long I should wait for your entry. I'll wait for 2 days after the fourth entry has been submitted if requested.
This account will no longer be used as it has been breached. Any posts made on it might be malicious and I will try to get a hold of a staff member to get this account temporarily banned until I figure how that happened.

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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 70061Post Kuba35910
June 11, 2020 16:27:20

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Skills text:
For three turns, Kidoumaru gains 20 destructible defense. During this time, he will deal double base damage and gain double amount of destructible defense from his other skills.

Kidoumaru deals 20 damage to one enemy previously destroying all destructible defense that enemy had. This skill deals more damage equal to the amount of destructible defense Kidoumaru has.

Kidoumaru stuns an enemy physcial skill for one turn. The following turn, that enemy will receive double base damage from Kidoumaru skills. This skill targets the whole enemy team during Summoning: Kyodaigumo.

For one turn, Kidoumaru ignores all harmful effects except damage. He also gains 5 DD permanently each turn (stacks). Kidoumaru loses all DD from this skill & stacks of this skill after using Sticky Gold Arrow.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 70396Post Zank
June 12, 2020 15:37:16

The groups are going to be posted in the following manner:

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Since there are three judges that can vote in the elimination group, a topic will be created for them to do so. Give me some time to create some structure for it as it's been over a month where all the votes were posted here and this is the first actual topic for voting the contest is getting. While there are three judges that can vote, there won't be enough in the groups afterwards so unless the judges both lose, the groups and the finals are going to be decided by the host.

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NBTCM #5 wrote:You are required to fulfill at least one of the following requirements to participate in this theme:

• Make any character that is an orphan. (Difficulty: Easy - Multiplier X1)

• Make any character that has at least one skill that costs four non-random energy. This character's skills must also be unable to change their own skill's costs. (Difficulty: Medium - Multiplier X4)

• Make your entry on or after the 12th of June 2020 or have your entry fit the other two requirements (Difficulty: Default - Multiplier X2)

• Additionally, you will be awarded an additional 2X Multiplier if your entry is at or below 120 words. This is not considered a requirement and the note does not count towards this cap.

Provide a link to the topic the entry has been first posted or mention that this is the topic this entry has been first posted to qualify for the third requirement. If your entry already qualifies for the first two, you don't need to do this.

Current Contest Judges:
• Zank
• Neji1113
• Kuba35910

Temporary Rule:

• The winner of any group will grant them points equal to the amount two votes would grant them normally. This applies to both entries in case of a tie, even though only one of them advances. Anyone that loses in a group still receives points normally in case their entry received any vote.

If you want an easier way to contact me in regards to this contest I can be found on this discord server: Link
Any stocks, skills and pictures can be used. In case you need any stocks:

Naruto Shippuden
Naruto Classic
Bane's Screencase

While browsing through any album, do it through web.archive until you find the episode you want. After you attempt to open an episode's album, webarchive will give you a link. Just copy and paste it and there you go. If you add /layout/grid at the end of that album's link it will show you the stocks in a more organized fashion.

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The rules have been tweaked based on the conversation we've had so far. Please consult the participation rules again. The new participation tweaks apply from this theme onwards.
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Re: • Naruto Boards Top Character Makers •

Post: # 70800Post Zank
August 12, 2020 1:53:54

NBTCM #4 Group A wrote:Entry #1

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Entry #2

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I will vote for entry #2 because it would be a lot more reliable as it can always deliver consistent results independent of outside factors when compared to entry #1, which is unreliable as most of its effects are hard to pull off and the reward for them is minimal.

You see, you don’t really have a lot of choices in regards of how to use this Jiroubou’s skills as he has a very optimal way to be played. As a result, you do have a reliable way to play him.

Once you used his fourth skill, it shall remain active until he or his target dies. So that’s one skill that you just set up. Afterwards, you use his first skill to set up gaining destructible defense from it. That way you gain 25 DD each turn.

Then you can spam using the second skill to boost the DD generation. Your only two situational skills are: use the third skill when you have enough DD or simply use the first skill to transfer the DD of the fourth skill to his first once it’s worth it.

Jiroubou only does two things. Gains destructible defense or deals damage. There’s not much thought you have to put into his moves once you have isolated an enemy from their team with the fourth skill, because then it becomes a game of efficiency, where you try to gain as much defense as possible.

Shinki however, tries to do a lot more than that.

I’d like to begin with the fact that it likely was intended for his second skill’s damage to also last 5 turns, but because the duration was placed at the end of the sentence there, it looks like he only gains destructible defense for 5 turns instead. There’s also the fact that the skill isn’t phrased like: “For 4 turns, Dordonii's team will gain 5 permanent destructible defense every turn” which would signify that he gains 5 defense every turn that is permanent. These things will impact my interpretation but it’s not the straw that broke the camel’s back. At the very least since the DD thing is rather frequent and the skill is Action, I will interpret it as if it uses the same type of wording as that of the pasted S-A character’s.

The reason the damage duration is not as bad as it seems is: if it dealt 5 damage for 5 turns, it would’ve been very easy to get Shinki to go out of control with his DD renewal effect of his first skill. If he would renew his defense each turn after an opponent has made a mistake and attacked him, he not only can end up having an insane amount of defense from his first skill, but due to the fact that the renewal of DD is not limited to the first skill, he would end up renewing the stacks of his second skill and increasing the defense by 10. So, he can end up from having 3 stacks of 5 DD to easily having 3 stacks of 15 DD. Not to mention outside sources which can also make him have an insane amount of defense.

As he is however the first skill’s effect becomes very situational, as the only way he’d be able to pull off attacking every enemy would be to be attacked by the enemy so that either 2nd skill activates on all of them or that he may use the fourth. Which frankly there’s no point to do so unless you can destroy that skill’s DD as soon as it activates. Then Shinki becomes useless, excluding his counter.

After his first skill is done, he may activate his second skill to gain 5 DD each turn and deal 5 damage once. He may also be attacked in the meantime and deal 5 damage to his attacker as recoil. Fortunately, due to the fact the second skill is applied again only on the enemy, he won’t generate any additional DD, which I’d argue is definitely for the better, because fighting against an enemy with really high defense but really low offense can take an insane amount of time.

To illustrate that point, imagine Shinki vs Shinki. 5 damage once every 4 turns and 10 damage once every 2 as long as fourth skill markings remain active due to the characters targeting each other. It would never end.

This would not have been the case if the damage lasted 5 turns but even then, it’d be a ridiculous situation as the first Shinki to use the second skill has the advantage as long as the other Shinki also uses second skill on them. So, you just would not so the other Shinki won’t outdamage you with faster stacks of 2nd skill.

The only threat is his counter which if it can be managed or has already been used, Shinki becomes obsolete. So due to a lot of balance problems, Shinki can become very inconsistent in whether or not it would be efficient to even have, since how efficient he can be varies wildly due to his offensive being really low and his renewal effect being situationally far too great but otherwise very unlikely to pull off. Even if pulled off, it’d most likely slow the game rather than help win it.

So, he is unreliable strictly because: he cannot do anything if he is not a target of someone else’s skills, his most useful effect (his dd renewal) is only applicable if all his enemies are alive, his only efficient option is his counter because of the fact there’s little reason to target him otherwise, (but due to that it means that he relies on his allies to pull off his weight) and when left on his own he’d have a hard time winning as he can barely deal enough damage to do so.
NBTCM #4 Group B wrote:Entry #1

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Entry #2

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I will vote for entry #2 because its effects all have an impact on each other, while the first entry has a bunch of effects that do not.

To put it simply, Sasuke is a pest that will passively gain defense at the expense of the health of his allies. This defense he can either use to increase his damage or convert it into health. Converting it into health can boost his destructible defense generation for 1 turn, having the possibility when combined with his 2nd skill and having 2 alive allies, to gain about 60 defense after healing. His second skill is a counter against damaging skill that will convert their damage into destructible defense for Sasuke and just in the case it’d fail it will deal 15 damage to the opponent and grant Sasuke 20 defense. So that 60 defense I was talking about might be significantly higher than 60 if he does not fail his counter. While the first and third skill do not have any direct influence over each other, they do strip away Sasuke’s defense so even using either of those skills will influence what Sasuke can do.

Kidomaru however has two effects that do not. A physical stun that has the potential to become AoE. And Kidomaru ignoring non-harmful damaging effects. Neither of these really matter to Kidomaru’s strategy of raising his defense to increase the damage of his second skill. There’s also the fact that Kidomaru doubles his base damage with two effects unreliant on that factor that also does not fit, but I can accept that he should be at least a threat even without his defense. He can also boost his DD generation which can help him achieve his plan.

The point is, Sasuke’s effects all support as a strategy for him to gain as much defense as he can in order to use that defense as a resource while Kidomaru’s has a bunch of effects that have nothing to do with achieving his goal, settling instead for effects that while practical, they are still situational because they do not play into his plan.

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Since both judges lost, I've contacted them to see whether or not they'd still be able to be active as judges after the site's hiatus, because lets face it, many things can change after almost 2 months and perhaps they are not ready to be active on the site again. If both of them can, I'll post the finals on a topic. If either one cannot the winner will be decided by me. I'll wait for their answers until this Sunday.

As for the contest, it can follow the same schedule, although I might update it at an earlier hour than I was doing it previously. I'm curious about how many active participants the contest will continue to have after so much time with the site being down, but hey, given the contest does not have a fixed schedule, as long as I eventually get four entries, I can make it work.

So to spell it out, this contest will continue to be active, as long as it has enough participants. The same requirements as announced 2 months ago is valid and entries may be submitted for it.

I'll provide some additional updates later as I also have to fix the broken leaderboards. Because the actual site url has changed, now it's filled with broken links. I have a plan for another type of catch up mechanic for participants with losing streaks that I will be announcing once I update that as well, since after this someone qualifies for what I had in mind. Long story short, they will receive some additional requirements to participate based on the reasons they have lost that they can use to participate.

Also, it'd be helpful to hear from anyone that plans to continue participating/start participating that they do beforehand so I can have an idea about how much time it's going to take between each phase or if there will be enough people in the foreseeable future.
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